Titles Achieved to date...

Monumental A to Z High On Liberty
NW1, RATI, RATN, RATO, NW2, L1I, RATS, L1E, L1C, L1V, L2C, L2I, L2E, RATM, R-FE/N, PKD-TL, PKD-N, ADPL1, ADPL2, TD, UWP, ADPL3, NTD, TKN, L2V, ADPL4, SDS-N, ADPL5, ADPCH, ADP1(2), ADPL1(GC), ADPL2(2), ADPL2(GC), VPN, AP, UWPCH, ADPL3(2), ADPL3(GC), NC, NI, NE, SCN, SIN, SEN, CZ8B, NV, NN, ADPL4(2), ADPL4(GC), ADPGCH, ADPL5(2), RATCH, CZ8S, AI, TKI, AV, AE, AC, AN, R-FE/X NW3-V, NW3-E, SI, RN, R-FE/NS, CZ8G, SC, SV, SE, SN, SEA, SBN, SWN, SIA, SCA, ADP-1(Th), ADP-2(Th), ADP-3(Th), ADP-4(Th), ADP-5(Th), and ADP-CH(Th)... 81 and counting...

Monday, March 4, 2013

NW Comment

I have decided to answer Chris' comment in a separate blog entry, because I think there is a lot of information about the nature of the nosework sport that I can share in this discussion.
  • Try anything once twice if you like it. Nothing says that you need to stay with the short line. 
I would try it, if I thought it was a credible idea.  I don't try strychnine as a desert topping - its not a credible idea.  I don't discount the idea out of hand - there are a number of reasons I think an ultra short line isn't credible/feasible.

This 18 inch thing is just the latest thing Joyce heard about at an instructor's seminar.  Every time she comes back she wants to make all these changes and try everything out on her students.  I went through that with agility instructors who had to try out everything on every student every time they came home from a seminar -- all it ever did was mess up what my dog already knew.  I'm not inclined to let her experiment on my dog.  Besides she isn't even suggesting this to the other students in class, who run slower dogs where it would be more feasible, and most telling, doesn't do it with her own dog.

Working Gimme on an 18 inch leash would be too inhibiting for both of us.  She'd have to drag me around to perform her search and I wouldn't be able to handle her in a way that keeps me from selling her on odor that isn't there.  I'll have to get another video of Gimme working that gives you an idea of just how fast I'd have to move.  Gimme changes direction a LOT and very fast as she is chasing odor to solve the puzzle.  The mental picture of me chasing Gimme chasing odor - well its not pretty and its not something I could do effectively and not interfere with her searching.

I watched some handlers at the NW3 trial work fast dogs on a short line.  It looked ridiculous as they were scurrying and scrambling around, trying to keep up and not give the dog a leash correction.  Even more important than the looks though... is that as we handlers move through the area, we are disturbing and moving the odor around.  At the converging odor seminar we saw video using a "dragon puffer" (a tiny smoke generator) that showed how a person moving past the source changes it in huge ways.  Even dogs as they are searching and moving through the odor cone change the odor - they showed a Golden Retriever and its big plume of a tail scattered the odor every which way.  The more odor is disturbed from its natural dispersal pattern, the harder the search puzzle is for the dog.

So as handlers, we don't want to be flailing around (moving erratically) in the search area, stirring up tiny breezes that scatter odor.  Instead we want to move calmly and slowly to create as little disturbance as is possible.  Always assuming that Gimme is working the odor and getting as close as she can, I want to be further away, never between her and odor, not moving in a way that disturbs odor or sells her on odor that isn't there.
  • How about a bungee cord for a lead. You cam buy that by the foot until you decide to get one.
I honestly don't think we need a gadget.  I've practiced my line handling and I'm good at it.  I get compliments from judges on my handling.  The only reason I'm entertaining the 12-15 foot line is that it might be less likely to catch on stuff in confined searches, like vehicles and interiors.  I plan to stick with the 25 foot line for exteriors and containers - where Gimme often works at a greater distance from me.
  • The correction you keep talking about. What happens when she gets to the end of the twenty foot line?
The unintended correction never happens on the 25 foot line, because she never goes that far during her searches.  In class I saw she stopped at 8-10 feet when she was intentionally moving in and out of odor, so she wasn't getting a correction even with a 12 foot line.  The start line is usually no more than 10 feet from the nearest box or vehicle, so she wouldn't get a correction then either.

I've practiced my line handling, so that I can gradually increase tension on the line as it slides through my guiding hand when she moves away and that way she can feel that more tension means she is getting toward the end.  She doesn't hit the end any more; probably not in almost a year.
  • There will be times that having the versatility to use any length of lead will be important.  I am only basing that on what I have seen of videos on tracking dogs. Some time they give the dog its "head" by a long line and other times they keep it close.
I'm not sure what tracking you are watching where you are seeing them work close to the dog.  I do know that in AKC tracking, the handler must be a minimum of 25 feet from the dog after they leave the start line.  In practical tracking (real world), there might be times they take up the line in confined areas...  but you'll see they never track on a short line.  I've read several books on tracking and trailing and no one ever suggests a short line; though they do carry a traffic lead for use when they aren't working.  When they are working, they use a long line that they take up and let out.

In any case, you just made my point...  I can't give Gimme her "head" on a 6 foot lead, much less an 18 inch lead.  With a 6 foot lead she would hit the end in one stride - certainly not much of a "head".  An 18 inch lead she would always be at the end.  At the start line, I hold the line at 12 inches from her harness.  Sometimes I walk her on that 12 inches to the nearest vehicle or container if she's not already focused and straining toward it.
  • I know you can come up with an idea to get Gimme to gently lead off, but time is the issue. You are trying to beat the time. Joyce may only be focusing on completing the search.
The whole point of nosework as a sport is to teach the dogs to find odor and tell us where it is.  We want to stay as far away from any hint of obedience as possible.  Joyce gets after me for "doing obedience" with Gimme before her searches.  Sometimes when Gimme is particularly scattered (usually because she's been cooped up too much), I do a few little exercises to settle her mind.  Its not about getting her to focus on me, but rather to engage her thinking brain.  If I don't do it when I recognize Gimme isn't focused, then the first search is pretty much a waste.  Joyce doesn't even let us encourage the dog to walk on a loose lead anywhere near the search area.  I've learned to do our focusing exercises where Joyce can't see me, to avoid the lectures.

The dog is the one with the nose, so she is in charge.  We are not supposed to be guiding them.   So teaching her to "gently lead off" would be the opposite of that fundamental idea of the dog being in charge.  Even for threshold hides, we don't restrain the dog near the threshold.  Instead we do a lot of those hides, so the dog learns to check the threshold.  That's also why we use the allowed 10 seconds behind the start line to let the dog get a scent inventory and potentially identify any odor near the threshold. 

An 18 inch lead is so weird, my gut reaction is that we might as well just heel around the vehicles and give up the pretense that the dog is in charge.

Besides, having watched a lot of handlers in matches, trials, classes and seminars - handler interference is THE single most common error that causes a team to fail a search.  With a dog as fast moving as Gimme, there is no way an ultra short lead would not cause interference.
  • Glad to see you and Gimme are having fun.
And therein is the whole crux of it...  Gimme is having fun and doing well.  I believe that is because I let her run the show and I don't interfere with her way of playing this game and solving the puzzle.  I am also careful not to unduly frustrate her efforts.  Thus I don't take seriously suggestions that would interfere with her. 




2 comments:

Ximena said...

I completely agree with you. 18in is SO short! I can't even imagine... I have a 4ft that I have used for small interior searches, but otherwise I have a pretty strong inclination to use my 12ft. And Elli's probably not even as driven for Nosework as Gimme... being that we practice much less and don't do classes as often as you two. Stick to your guns - 25ft sounds perfect for your needs.

A to Z Dals said...

Thanks. I too think 18 inches is whacko... I correspond with a CNWI in Alaska and she thought it was crazy. She's the one that encouraged me to try the 10-15 foot for vehicles and interiors. She thinks I may want to use the shorter one for containers once we get to NW3 when they have a lot more taller containers.

As I said, 12 foot seemed to work well for vehicles. I'll set up a couple more vehicle searches to try it again. And will see over the next couple of weeks how I like it for interiors. If it works for that... then I'll order it in biothane... (a different color from my longer biothane so I can pick it out easily).

Well, off to agility...